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Bathala
Belial
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 22
Location: New York
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 Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: Does God Exist? |
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I would like to open a debate on the core topic of "Does God exist?"
I want it to be a civil and ongoing debate. If anybody wants to debate this with me, I am amenable to agreeing to rules and delimiters.
I pose the argument that God does not exist. Any good Christian out there should defend his/her God and come to this civil debate. |
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richie_fca
Belial
Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 39
Location: QC
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Bathala,
I hope you're still around. I do want to take up your challenge.
My understanding is that all these will be in writing, right? Coz I'm not a natural public speaker and I don't have my resources readily in my head. I'm also not a trained debater. But I'm a truth-seeker and I believe that the truth would always have the best argument.
I'm a Christian theist and my position is GOD EXISTS.
I'll await the rules and parameters. Regards. |
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joma
Belial
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:19 am Post subject: |
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hi!
Im not debating you for now, but I wish to ask a couple of hypothetical questions.
I hope you dont mind answering.
The question is: If it is proven beyond doubt that your God is non-existence, would you reject Him.
The other question is: If it is determined beyond doubt that God commanded you to kill your Mother (or Father), would you obey Him?
Im excited to hear your views/replies. |
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richie_fca
Belial
Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 39
Location: QC
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| My answer is affirmative for both of your questions. |
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Isang Kaibigan
Belial
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 28
Location: The Philippines
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| joma wrote: |
The question is: If it is proven beyond doubt that your God is non-existence, would you reject Him.
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I don't think anybody can reject someone who do not actually exist
| joma wrote: |
The other question is: If it is determined beyond doubt that God commanded you to kill your Mother (or Father), would you obey Him?
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It is impossible for the theistic god cannot contradict himself (yes, there are impossibilities for the theistic god in spite of his quality of omnipotence—which only means, the capability to do what is possible). Therefore, the theistic god would not issue contradicting commands.
In what case do you suppose that god will ever command to kill one's parents? Self-defense is justifiable in theistic morality. |
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joma
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Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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I am fairly comfortable with the replies provided by riche_fca.
If you wish to answer the question "does god exist?" feel free to do so, that we might see your view. |
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Isang Kaibigan
Belial
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 28
Location: The Philippines
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Hello Joma!
| joma wrote: | I am fairly comfortable with the replies provided by riche_fca.
If you wish to answer the question "does god exist?" feel free to do so, that we might see your view. |
The two hypothetical questions you gave are not arguments for the existence of god, though your main question is "Does God Exist?"
The first question is fair. I concur with riche_fca.
I sense that the second question is a set up to make riche_fca look like a religious fanatic. In riche_fca's worldview, it is logically consistent and reasonable to kill his parents based on certain conditions, not for any reason at all. Of course, you have a different worldview, and riche_fca simply would not make any sense to you based on your worldview.
Nevertheless, the second question is a moral question. If you are arguing that if the morality, which riche_fca adapted, is not good taste, then god does not exist. First, it does not follow. It could only mean that his morality is immoral based on your morality.
It is really hard to judge moral values of one worldview based on the worldview of another. With this methodology, in most cases, we end up with a stalemate. Just like in a reality competition where judgment is reserved through voting by the public, and the majority has to win, we may or may not end up with the best person. There will always be disagreement on who is the best. Why? Because people have different tastes and criteria and scoring on who is the best. Even though there is a suggested criterion, people relatively interpret that criterion
Well anyway, we all do that: judging other's morality based on our moral standards. We can't stop people from doing that. It's their choice. We can stop ourselves though.
If we can judge our moral values based on a common standard, then we can end up with a fair conclusion on who is right and who is wrong. I just don't think we will all agree to what that common standard must be. Ha!
So again, whatever the answer is to your second hypothetical question, it would not be an admissible evidence for the existence or non-existence of god.
Now, you said that you are comfortable with riche_fca's answers. That means you are not a Moral Absolutist yourself, correct? That means, there could be cases that killing one's parents are morally permissible under certain conditions. That means, you could do that too under certain conditions, correct?
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I hope we can still be friends even when we disagree. |
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fountainhead
Astaroth
Joined: 21 Mar 2009
Posts: 51
Location: Mindoro
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Does God exist?
First: How do you define the word "God"? What is God?
Second: How do you define the word "exist"? What is existence?
The word "God" has no definition.
To exist is to have an identity. Anything that exist is identifiable.
If there is no definition of God and it is unidentifiable meaning no identity. Thus, God does not exist. |
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ronparel
Belial
Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Qatar
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:37 pm Post subject: "no gods, no masters" |
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As far as i know, there is no "God". The Bible is a good reference material. It was quite convincing upon first reading that God is a figment of the illiterate imagination.
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love is my religion |
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Isang Kaibigan
Belial
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 28
Location: The Philippines
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| fountainhead wrote: | The word "God" has no definition.
To exist is to have an identity. Anything that exist is identifiable. |
How can one deny something that he can't even define what he is trying to deny?
Premise 1: | fountainhead wrote: | | If there is no definition of God |
Premise 2: | fountainhead wrote: | | and it is unidentifiable, meaning no identity. |
Conclusion: | fountainhead wrote: | | Thus, God does not exist. |
The first premise is a conditional clause by the word "If." What if the requirement of the condition is fulfilled?
Premise: There is a definition of God: the First Cause (Kalam Cosmological Argument). (See http://philippineatheists.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=623&start=30)
Conclusion 1: God has an identity (following from the Premise).
Conclusion 2: Thus, God exists.
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I hope we can still be friends even when we disagree. |
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jeyci
Belial
Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 10
Location: q.c.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How can one deny something that he can't even define what he is trying to deny? |
How can you believe someone that you can't even define/ can't even see. It's more rational to deny someone/something that you can't define/see than to believe someone/something that you can't define/see.
I would really like to give my arguments here. But I would love to see more from you guys(God exist side) before I give mine.
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pity to those who believe god |
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Isang Kaibigan
Belial
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 28
Location: The Philippines
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:19 pm Post subject: Does God Exist? |
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| jeyci wrote: | | How can you believe someone that you can't even define/ can't even see. It's more rational to deny someone/something that you can't define/see than to believe someone/something that you can't define/see. |
You seem to equate defining with seeing. Only whatever is visible can be defined. You seem to be a verificationist, which many atheists have already abandoned due to its inherent problems. Physical laws, moral laws, and laws of logic are invisible, since they are abstract objects, yet they are objectively true. Verificationism itself cannot be physically seen, and therefore unverifiable as true. This philosophy is so narrow.
Certain things can be defined even if they are not visible.
| jeyci wrote: | | I would really like to give my arguments here. |
Please do so.
| jeyci wrote: | | But I would love to see more from you guys(God exist side) before I give mine. |
I take a cumulative case for my argument. Let’s just take the first step: there must be a First Cause of all that exists. Theists call this First Cause as God. Please look at http://philippineatheists.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=623&start=30. As for further arguments and for the identification of this God, we'll discuss them later in steps 2 and so on.
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I hope we can still be friends even when we disagree. |
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pedroilaya@yahoo.com
Belial
Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Posts: 1
Location: philippines
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:58 am Post subject: you know what |
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hi, i'm supposedly taking a deep sleep when my unconscious level of the mind is keep in talking so i just got this site for enjoyment and paying attention to what we have during these days of life. i think one thing should we do is having our great favor for living and not asking for god. you were atheist ever since, you don't believe on your creator so let us just be individual for doing good things for striving your own path. goodnight.
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gman
Belial
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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It is religion that claims there is a god, and not just one religion but many.
So as claimed and described by any religion that has ever claimed there is a God, I would have to say that the probability is so incredibly small, so minuet that it can only be considered to be zero.
Not to mention that science has disproven and discredited all the religion has ever said, the answer is no, there is not a god.
It is safe to say that the bible contains equal parts fact, history and pizza, but no thuth. |
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dustin_celestino
Belial
Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Quezon City, Baby
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| joma wrote: | hi!
Im not debating you for now, but I wish to ask a couple of hypothetical questions.
I hope you dont mind answering.
The question is: If it is proven beyond doubt that your God is non-existence, would you reject Him.
The other question is: If it is determined beyond doubt that God commanded you to kill your Mother (or Father), would you obey Him?
Im excited to hear your views/replies. |
Question 1: If god did not exist then there's no one to reject, right?
Question 2: No. If this god was good, he wouldn't ask me to kill my parents. If he was evil, why would I do what he told me? |
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